From unknown Sun Apr 05 17:44:08 2026 X-Loop: owner@bugs.x2go.org Subject: Bug#364: [X2Go-Dev] Bug#364: Please add config option to disable bubble help text and change the wording of it Reply-To: Ricardo =?UTF-8?Q?D=C3=ADaz_?= =?UTF-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADn?= , 364@bugs.x2go.org Resent-From: Ricardo =?UTF-8?Q?D=C3=ADaz_?= =?UTF-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADn?= Resent-To: x2go-dev@lists.berlios.de Resent-CC: X2Go Developers X-Loop: owner@bugs.x2go.org Resent-Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 08:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@bugs.x2go.org X-X2Go-PR-Message: followup 364 X-X2Go-PR-Package: x2goclient X-X2Go-PR-Keywords: Received: via spool by 364-submit@bugs.x2go.org id=B364.138718033621467 (code B ref 364); Mon, 16 Dec 2013 08:03:01 +0000 Received: (at 364) by bugs.x2go.org; 16 Dec 2013 07:52:16 +0000 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on ymir.das-netzwerkteam.de X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED,T_DKIM_INVALID,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from mail-wg0-f52.google.com (mail-wg0-f52.google.com [74.125.82.52]) by ymir (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2926A5DB16; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 08:52:07 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail-wg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id x13so4240864wgg.7 for ; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 23:52:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=+0OGJbK+wL/Mzfm5XYdlC1Aw08kmDjLWpkzjT3u4YGg=; b=kbcP/CYCgGGW2iNSg5+DS210udhjI8yglSkYwD62yjm9mgFLDg2glk/HZFVnHb7dZR MbTg8zF5qxo19qRUVLqtbcOm4TVQ+SzXtU4bN0/TT/+9cpQoU9z6uEmNTkGOW8G0Symn lJn0hOrcsvbJuiwz9moYSzmiv09PyT5B/gTDfDQlrOfTCKsgSc3eGs8SgQb5zRcphJWu arhSjOTG0xaAZIon96Fm4PoC02hFOGhREVDnp4plunEx30b+XZiLyEtlo3bIq5OJ1HHB XX5rRKlzhoBE2NcvKAS59+8eOVKnEzJguHHwmuWKPtD1Oj+Q9ZjbUVWqr5fR7koWbhx1 gXtQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.185.113 with SMTP id fb17mr11202518wjc.29.1387180326771; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 23:52:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.103.66 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Dec 2013 23:52:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <52ACCBBB.9070608@stefanbaur.de> References: <52A876A2.8090104@stefanbaur.de> <52ACCBBB.9070608@stefanbaur.de> Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 08:52:06 +0100 Message-ID: From: Ricardo =?UTF-8?Q?D=C3=ADaz_?= =?UTF-8?Q?Mart=C3=ADn?= To: Stefan Baur Cc: 364@bugs.x2go.org, x2go-dev@lists.berlios.de, submit@bugs.x2go.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd6bb0e9de31204eda216e8 --047d7bd6bb0e9de31204eda216e8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2013/12/14 Stefan Baur > Am 14.12.2013 21:16, schrieb Ricardo D=C3=ADaz Mart=C3=ADn: > > > And again, I'm kind of disappointed that we're adding silly eye >>> candy when there still are serious bugs to fix. >>> >> >> >> I added the pop-up because if you set on the x2goclient option "hide >> windows on connect" (as I usually do with my users settings) looks like >> nothing happens when you click on connect button. So some users try to >> do again and again and connection stuck. It's no an "eye candy". >> > > Okay, different use case, it seems. While I'm also setting "hide windows > on connect", I'm using the autolauncher in combination with it, so that > after login, the application that my users need the most immediately pops > up. So maybe we could hide it when autolaunch (--autostart=3D) is u= sed? > Still, I don't see why making it a configurable option would be bad. Eith= er > your users behave and don't change settings on their own, so it stays the > way you configured it for them, or you set the --no-session-edit paramete= r > to force them. > > > > In addition, it's complete true there are serious bugs to fix instead to >> add this feature so you have some options: >> - Read in deep the code and send patches to fix them. And of course do >> it for free and using the time you must to be with your family, friends >> or doing some sports or something else... >> > > While I'm not a "frontline" coder, and only do debugging when Mike#1 tell= s > me what and how to do, I do happen to check for issues and report > bugs/oddities, plus I'm occasionally active in x2go-i10n (since no Englis= h > native speaker seems to have enough time to check our English messages), > and a lot of that actually happens in my free time, like the last > evaluation of the x2goclient.exe that Mike#2 had asked for. > > Also, I have a few things in the works that add value to the > ThinClientEnvironment part of the project, it's just that I'm not > committing the source directly but showing it to Mike#1 first, since TCE = is > his "baby" and he will know best where to add my code or how to tweak it = to > play along nicely. > Just two examples: One thing, passed on to him about a year ago, was code > to auto-detect an X2Go server similar to how WPAD ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Proxy_Autodiscovery_Protocol) works. > Judging from a note I recently saw regarding the X2Go Session Broker, I'm > guessing he's either using it or it has inspired him to come up with > something similar. > Another thing is an X2Go ThinClient that can be booted off a CD or USB > memory stick, for cases where PXE booting isn't available. > This is not for older clients that don't have a PXE boot rom - you can > simply boot gPXE or iPXE off a CD on those - but for cases where PXE > booting isn't available for other reasons, like: > - You are allowed to run an X2Go server, but do not have permission to > change or set up a PXE/NFS environment (a common situation when someone > wants to demonstrate X2Go in a corporate setting). > - You are travelling somewhere, want to connect to your X2Go server > somewhere else over the Internet, didn't bring your own computer, only a > USB key fob, and don't trust the Windows installation found on the machin= e > you're being offered to use (if you can trust it, you can of course simpl= y > use x2goclient.exe in portable mode). > > Looking back in the X2Go-dev mailing list history, I can see 17 messages > from you and 113 (yes, one hundred and thirteen compared to seventeen) > messages from me. So let that sink in for a moment before you continue > barking up the wrong tree. > Very thanks to write 113 (yes, one hundred and thirteen) messages. It's simple amazing. I wrote only 17... bad karma > > > - Fork the project and add the features you want >> - Pay for commercial support to fix the bugs and your wishes >> > > And that last point is what I've done previously, more than once. Maybe > you'd like to check on the wiki who sponsored the development of the > published applications feature, for example? > http://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php/doc:sponsors > http://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php/doc:deployment-stories:electronic-glovebox > > Or the Windows "interim" x2goclient that comes with the old pulseaudio, > that avoids the stuttering noises when playing Flash videos? That would b= e > me (or, to be exact: the company that I am the sole owner of), in both > cases. > > Also, you might want to check who provides the Apple Mac Mini (that is, > the machine itself, the power, and the network connection) free of charge > that is used for the MacOS x2goclient builds? Again, me/my company. > > Your attitude, however, is one that might force me to reconsider my > investment of time and money into the project. Especially as the Mac stuf= f > is currently of zero commercial value to me: I bought that machine only s= o > that the project could deliver a great user experience across all three > major operating system platforms (while some of my customers are Mac > owners, I learned that they prefer to run Windows on Apple hardware, so > they run x2goclient.exe). > > > Oh my good! Please don't reconsider your very huge investment (mac mini is very nice and expensive machine currently better than IBM mainframe). And thanks for paying the development of the published applications feature! Maybe it's nice for you because the product you sale is just this feature. > > I don't want to be rude but it's an opensource project and not very >> happy when somebody use the words "silly eye candy" talking about the >> time other people spent for free. >> > > I don't want to be rude, either, but "free" isn't a valid excuse for > "bad". Nor has it ever been. > Sorry but people that fill a bug using word "silly" and still thinking it's the right way to do it got no more my respect. > > See, you started with a seemingly harmless addition of an information > "bubble". Then someone else came along and added the session name. This i= s > somewhere between feature creep and a color-of-the-bicycle-shed ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Avoid_Parkinson%27s_ > Bicycle_Shed_Effect) discussion, and I would like to remind everybody > involved that we should avoid that. > Thanks for the link. > > We should stick to the K.I.S.S. principle, get the serious bugs worked > out, then add new features. > I also doubt it makes debugging of currently existing bugs easier while > new code for new features keeps getting added. > --047d7bd6bb0e9de31204eda216e8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= 2013/12/14 Stefan Baur <newsgroups.mail2@stefanbaur.de>= ;
A= m 14.12.2013 21:16, schrieb Ricardo D=C3=ADaz Mart=C3=ADn:


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 And again, I'm kind of disappointed that we're adding= silly eye
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 candy when there still are serious bugs to fix.


I added the pop-up because if you set on the x2goclient option "hide windows on connect" (as I usually do with my users settings) looks lik= e
nothing happens when you click on connect button. So some users try to
do again and again and connection stuck. It's no an "eye candy&quo= t;.

Okay, different use case, it seems. While I'm also setting "hide w= indows on connect", I'm using the autolauncher in combination with= it, so that after login, the application that my users need the most immed= iately pops up. =C2=A0So maybe we could hide it when autolaunch (--autostar= t=3D<app>) is used? Still, I don't see why making it a configurab= le option would be bad. Either your users behave and don't change setti= ngs on their own, so it stays the way you configured it for them, or you se= t the --no-session-edit parameter to force them.



In addition, it's complete true there are serious bugs to fix instead t= o
add this feature so you have some options:
- Read in deep the code and send patches to fix them. And of course do
it for free and using the time you must to be with your family, friends
or doing some sports or something else...

While I'm not a "frontline" coder, and only do debugging when= Mike#1 tells me what and how to do, I do happen to check for issues and re= port bugs/oddities, plus I'm occasionally active in x2go-i10n (since no= English native speaker seems to have enough time to check our English mess= ages), and a lot of that actually happens in my free time, like the last ev= aluation of the x2goclient.exe that Mike#2 had asked for.

Also, I have a few things in the works that add value to the ThinClientEnvi= ronment part of the project, it's just that I'm not committing the = source directly but showing it to Mike#1 first, since TCE is his "baby= " and he will know best where to add my code or how to tweak it to pla= y along nicely.
Just two examples: One thing, passed on to him about a year ago, was code t= o auto-detect an X2Go server similar to how WPAD (http://e= n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Proxy_Autodiscovery_Protocol) wo= rks.
Judging from a note I recently saw regarding the X2Go Session Broker, I'= ;m guessing he's either using it or it has inspired him to come up with= something similar.
Another thing is an X2Go ThinClient that can be booted off a CD or USB memo= ry stick, for cases where PXE booting isn't available.
This is not for older clients that don't have a PXE boot rom - you can = simply boot gPXE or iPXE off a CD on those - but for cases where PXE bootin= g isn't available for other reasons, like:
- You are allowed to run an X2Go server, but do not have permission to chan= ge or set up a PXE/NFS environment (a common situation when someone wants t= o demonstrate X2Go in a corporate setting).
- You are travelling somewhere, want to connect to your X2Go server somewhe= re else over the Internet, didn't bring your own computer, only a USB k= ey fob, and don't trust the Windows installation found on the machine y= ou're being offered to use (if you can trust it, you can of course simp= ly use x2goclient.exe in portable mode).

Looking back in the X2Go-dev mailing list history, I can see 17 messages fr= om you and 113 (yes, one hundred and thirteen compared to seventeen) messag= es from me. So let that sink in for a moment before you continue barking up= the wrong tree.

Very thanks to write 113 (yes, one hundred and = thirteen) messages. It's simple amazing. I wrote only 17... bad karma

=C2=A0
=C2=A0

- Fork the project and add the features you want
- Pay for commercial support to fix the bugs and your wishes

And that last point is what I've done previously, more than once. Maybe= you'd like to check on the wiki who sponsored the development of the p= ublished applications feature, for example?
ht= tp://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php/doc:sponsors
http://wiki.x2go.org/doku.php/doc:deploy= ment-stories:electronic-glovebox=C2=A0

Or the Windows "interim" x2goclient that comes with the old pulse= audio, that avoids the stuttering noises when playing Flash videos? That wo= uld be me (or, to be exact: the company that I am the sole owner of), in bo= th cases.

Also, you might want to check who provides the Apple Mac Mini (that is, the= machine itself, the power, and the network connection) free of charge that= is used for the MacOS x2goclient builds? Again, me/my company.

Your attitude, however, is one that might force me to reconsider my investm= ent of time and money into the project. Especially as the Mac stuff is curr= ently of zero commercial value to me: I bought that machine only so that th= e project could deliver a great user experience across all three major oper= ating system platforms (while some of my customers are Mac owners, I learne= d that they prefer to run Windows on Apple hardware, so they run x2goclient= .exe).



Oh my good! Please don'= ;t reconsider your very huge investment (mac mini is very nice and expensiv= e machine currently better than IBM mainframe). And thanks for paying the d= evelopment of the published applications feature! Maybe it's nice for y= ou because the product you sale is just this feature.

=C2=A0

I don't want to be rude but it's an opensource project and not very=
happy when somebody use the words "silly eye candy" talking about= the
time other people spent for free.

I don't want to be rude, either, but "free" isn't a valid= excuse for "bad". Nor has it ever been.


Sorry but people that fill a bug using wor= d "silly" and still thinking it's the right way to do it got = no more my respect.


=C2=A0

See, you started with a seemingly harmless addition of an information "= ;bubble". Then someone else came along and added the session name. Thi= s is somewhere between feature creep and a color-of-the-bicycle-shed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:= Avoid_Parkinson%27s_Bicycle_Shed_Effect) discussion, and I would= like to remind everybody involved that we should avoid that.


Thanks for the link.<= /div>


=C2=A0

We should stick to the K.I.S.S. principle, get the serious bugs worked out,= then add new features.
I also doubt it makes debugging of currently existing bugs easier while new= code for new features keeps getting added.
=C2=A0


--047d7bd6bb0e9de31204eda216e8--